Стискай палци и се готви психически за ремонт

Аз имам въпрос :

Когато е топло или карам дълго колата водата в преливника на радиатора се вдига до горе, понякога дори излиза извън него.
Това лошо ли е?
Може ли да е от термостата, който е примерно развален и не може да регулира температурата? Колата е 1993 EJ18

Благодаря предварително

Относно течовете на антифриз и проблема с гарнитурите, намерих това:

Two types of engines, two types of problems
This site contains links to information and hopefully some helpful explanations regarding head gasket problems with Subaru 2.5 liter normally aspirated (non turbo) engines. There are two types of engines, Phase 1 and Phase 2. Both variants can have head gasket problems associated with them, but the problems, how to diagnose them, and how to fix them, differ between the two phases.

PHASE 1 (Dual Overhead Cam):
Used in:
1996 to 1999 Legacy Outback
1996 to 1999 Legacy GT
1998 Impreza RS
1998 Forester


Typical failure mode:
Internal leak, not externally visible. May see bubbles in overflow reservoir, sludgy residue on walls of overflow reservoir, random overheating of engine.

Covered by service bulletin: No

Cost to repair:
DIY: $200 parts
Independent shop: $1000-$1500
Dealership: $2000


PHASE 2 (Single Overhead Cam):
Used in:
2000 to present (non-turbo) Legacy Outback
2000 to 2004 Legacy GT
2000 to present Legacy
1999 to present non-turbo Impreza 2.5 (RS, TS, Outback Sport)
1999 to present non-turbo Forester


Typical failure mode:
External leak, sweet smell, coolant visible on engine, slowly dropping coolant level.

Covered by service bulletin: WWP-99, for 1999 to 2002 model years, some models. Note this is only for Phase 2 engines, and some 1999 models have the Phase 1 engine and are NOT covered by this bulletin.

Cost to repair*:
* Subaru has a "coolant conditioner" that is added to the coolant. This is required to be added as part of the service bulletin and the cost is nominal. Subaru contends that this is all that is required to "repair" the leaks. 2003 and newer models are not covered under WWP-99 and supposedly not prone to head gasket leakage.




More about diagnosing problems
Phase 1 engines:

Phase 1 engines typically experience an "internal" head gasket failure if failure happens. This is hard for a lot of mechanics to diagnose, is difficult to reliably duplicate, and often has resulted in the owners throwing money and parts at the problem. New thermostats, flushing coolant, new water pumps and radiators are examples which do not fix the problem if it is indeed head gasket failure. If the engine overheats too many times or too severely, it can result in warped heads and the need for a new engine. As of this date Subaru has never acknowledged the existence of any problem, and are unlikely to do so. They have redesigned the head gaskets and most people that have had the new gaskets properly installed have had good success. The "coolant conditioner" described in WWP-99 DOES NOT fix this internal leak, nor does it give you an extended warranty against head gasket failure. Headgasket replacement is your only option besides engine replacement.

Common symptoms:
Overheating, often when slowing or stopped after extended high load driving. The overheating can be seemingly random and sporadic.
Bubbles in coolant overflow reservoir, immediately after running.
Sludgy residue in coolant overflow tank.
Hydrocarbons in coolant overflow tank, this is tested by a mechanic with specialized equipment and is not evident visually.
Phase 2 engines:

* Phase 2 engines are SOHC (Single Overhead Cam), were used from 1999 or 2000 to present depending on model, and typically experience an "external" head gasket leakage if it happens. This problem, while pretty widespread, does not seem to be as damaging in nature to the engine. It has been acknowledged by Subaru in the form of a "Service Campaign" #WWP-99 which applies to certain '99 to '02 cars. It involves adding a "Coolant Conditioner" to the coolant and if this is done the owner's head gaskets are covered against external coolant leaks for 8 years or 100K miles.

Common symptoms:
"Sweet" smell after operating engine and then stopping.
External fluid leakage (green) visible on engine or below car.
Slowly dropping coolant level due to leakage.

HG discussion on Nasioc. Nasioc.com, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club. Highlights of this link include several people detailing their head gasket experiences, and some good technical information about the updated gaskets. It's supposed to be about the Phase 1 engines, but there is some Phase 2 discussion mixed in there too.

HG discussion on Nasioc Nasioc.com, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club. This one is specifically about the part numbers of old and new gaskets on the Phase 1 DOHC 2.5 liter engine.


HG replacement instructions. Skip's writeup on a replacement of head gaskets. Includes a link to a "guestbook" where he invites you to sign up if you have experienced head gasket failure. This thorough writeup also has information on telltale signs of HG problems, and links to other good Subaru information. Again, this is supposed to be specific to the Phase 1 DOHC 2.5l, but there are references in the guest log to the Phase 2 SOHC. Skip mentions the bad head gaskets in 2.5l's from "1996-present", and I personally feel that Phase 1's and Phase 2's should not be lumped together. As mentioned elsewhere on this page, there are two different versions of the engine and they differ in how the head gaskets fail. Never the less, kudos to Skip for such a thorough writeup and maintaining the guest log even though he hasn't owned a Subaru for quite a while now.

Autobild article (German)
Autobild article in English
Translated by Google
The results of a Subaru Legacy owners survey from Autobild.de, this article is in German. The second link is to Google's translation from German to English. The article illustrates the discrepancy between the reliability of the different sizes of engines. The 2.0 has very few problems, the 2.2 perhaps a few more, but the 2.5 definitely has the most. While the tone of the article is quite favorable, one thing that stands out is the number of respondents with the 2.5l engine who had head gasket problems: a sizable 21 percent. If one includes all engine configurations (2.0, 2.2 and 2.5), the percentage reporting HG problems drops to eight. My German friend who helped translate the article did raise a point which should be considered: In Germany, cars tend to be driven much harder than in the U.S. Consequently, they break more often.


WWP-99 Campaign thread

Replacement Phase 1 engine source: www.ccrengines.com

Engine replacement alternative: Replacing the Phase 1 2.5l engine with a 2.2l engine.

Another engine swap link (2.2): Swapped EJ22 for EJ25

Link to a Subaru service shop in WA with a good writeup of the problem and procedures:Why's my car overheating?

Аз криво-ляво се справих с превода, някой по-добър с английския би могъл да пробва.

Здравейте на всички.Какво значи ако има леко чукане на студен мотор, като от клапани.И след малко изчезва.

Който е на Windous7 може директно да си го преведе.Това, което успях да схвана, е че при двигателите ЕJ251 SOHC теча на антифриз от гарнитурите не вреди на двигателя и най-важното, че от Субару имат някаква добавка към или специална охладителна течност, която като се добави предпазва главите от теч през следващите 80-100 х. мили? Ако съм разбрал правилно.Някои от Вас чувал лие за тази добавка или каквото е там?

1. При мен си почукваше, но след като сложих пълна синтетика на Motul, почукването при студен мотор не се чува.
2. И аз се интересувам от такава добавка/антифриз с добавката.

Обикновено при други коли като OPEL,AUDI,VW и други. Тоя проблем е изразен в запушен отдушник.Тогава маслени те пари се смесват с конденза който се получава при изгасен горещ мотор , ниски температури и се получават те я гнусотии

Да не караш с 15w40?

с 10/40 съм

Добре де,
искам да питам какво масло да сложа :

15В40 или 10В40....

мотора е стар и не много добре поддържан. Има го хлопането на студен мотор.
Досега винаги съм карал с 10в40. Има леко капане. Ако сложа 15в40 мога ли да навредя на мотора? Би ли намаляло лекото капане от мотора? Какво ви е менението.

Да споделя какво се случва след няколкодневни наблюдения.Изминах 1700-1800 км. и установих загуба на масло - окло литър на 1300-1500 км. и големи постоянни загуби на охл. течност - говоря за около литър на няколко дни.А в гаража няма и грам теч, но онзи ден пътувах на дълго растояние по празниците и забелязах сравнително блажна локва под колата./Не проверих преди да спра дали не си я имаше/.Явно имам течове, които изглежда се засилват в определени периоди - при по-голямо и продължително загряване мисля.Промените в нивото на маслото са резки. Както си има и изведнъж - под минимума.Проверявам всеки ден. Днес и утре в този сняг пак трудно ще се засече за теч, но той не се появява при къси пробези - или е съвсем слаб.
Според това, което изчетох във форума - ще се сменят гарнитури. Възможно ли е да е друга причината?Все пак двигателят е EJ251.

Че си за гарнитури е ясно, не се безпокой за евентуална друга причина - като тръгнеш да сменяш гарнитурите ще видиш целия мотор - дори да не искаш, е без коляновия вал де - ама от двете слепени части на блока проблеми е изключително малко вероятно да има какъвто и да е проблем.

Ето това е сервизният бюлетин и въпросната добавката към антифриза.

В чуждите форуми се говори, че двете добавки са еднакви, а и производителят е един и същ "Holts".
Българските дилъри май не са и чували за такава добавка и не я предлагат, не предлагат също и оригинален антифриз - странна работа.

Май съм я виждал в бензиностанции Петрол

В представителството на Субару в Пловдив също не бяха чували за подобна добавка и продават друга марка антифриз за 15 лв литъра.

Добавката е много добра ако съдя по коментарите в известни нам Субару-форуми, но никой не забелязва факта, че се отнася за 2,5 литрови двигатели. Както винаги в тях има все нещо изкелефинчено.
Прилагам сервизния бюлетин на Субару, ..е трябва да се отбележи, че е от дата: 02/2004, но е хубаво, че има процедурата за прилагане на Subaru Cooling System Conditioner Part # SOA345001

WWP-99 Engine Cylinder Head Coolant Leaks
1. WWP-99 SUBARU Owner Notification Letter

This letter is kind of long, so here is a link to the full text ( also included at the end of this document for reference ).
2. Technical Service Bulletin WWP-99
NUMBER: WWP-99 DATE: 02/2004

APPLICABILITY:

2000-2002 Model Year Subaru Legacy and Outback;
1999-2002 Model Year Impreza
1999-2002 Model Year Forester

SUBJECT: Engine Cooling System Conditioner

INTRODUCTION

Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA) has determined that over time, affected vehicles may develop small external coolant leaks at engine cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal expansion and contraction of engine components caused by the heating and cooling of these parts. To prevent cylinder head gasket leaks from developing or to correct existing leaks, a special Subaru Cooling System Conditioner should be added to affected vehicle cooling systems.

This Service Program will involve adding one bottle of Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the engine cooling system.

AFFECTED VEHICLES

* 2000-2002 MY Subaru Legacy and Outback with 2.5L engine.
* 1999-2002 MY Impreza with 2.5L engine.
* 1999-2002 MY Forester with 2.5L engine.

Affected vehicles are identified in the VIN range chart below. Only vehicles with a 2.5L engine are affected.

Model From To
Legacy 2000MYSedan Y*200001 Y*218478
2.5L Wagon Y*300001 Y*313778
Outback Wagon Y*600001 Y*674127
2001MY Sedan 1*200001 1*216426
Wagon 1*300001 1*311949
Outback Wagon 1*600001 1*679753
2002MY Sedan 2*200001 2*202129
Wagon 2*300001 2*301972
Outback Wagon 2*600001 2*605593
Impreza 1999MYCoupe X*400001 X*403359
2.5L 2000MY Coupe Y*400001 Y*403888
Sedan Y*500001 Y*505796
2001MY Coupe 1*400001 1*402563
Sedan 1*500001 1*503187
2002MY Sedan 2*500001 2*513107
Wagon 2*800001 2*812658
Forester 1999MYForester X*700001 X*750961
2.5L 2000MYForester Y*700001 Y*731553
2001MYForester 1*700001 1*789251
2002MYForester 2*700001 2*726482

NOTE: Prior to performing repairs, confirm coverage for potentially affected vehicles by using the Vehicle Coverage Inquiry in the Dealer Communication System (DCS).

Vehicles identified in the preceding chart may include VINs that were not distributed in the U.S. market. Dealers will be provided a list of VINs that include the owner name and address. This information will enable dealers follow-up with owners of potentially affected vehicles. These listings contain owners names and addresses obtained from State Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any other purpose is unlawful. Accordingly dealers are urged to limit the use of this listing only for the purpose of completion of this service program.

OWNER NOTIFICATION

SOA prepare and mail an Owner Notification Letter to owners of the affected vehicles. Because of the number of vehicles affected and parts availability, owner notification will occur on or about the dates listed in the following four stages.

1999 MY - February 16, 2004
2000 MY - March 1, 2004
2001 MY - April 1, 2004
2002 MY - May 3, 2004

A copy of the owner notification letter is included at the end of this bulletin.

OWNER REIMBURSEMENT FOR PREVIOUS REPAIRS

Owners are being advised in the owner notification letter, found at the end of this bulletin, that if they have previously paid an authorized Subaru dealer for repairs related to this Service Program, they may be entitled to reimbursement. The owners are further advised, to qualify for any reimbursement they must submit the original repair invoice to Subaru of America, Inc. Please review the owner notification letter, which explains this procedure so that you are familiar with it, and can assist owners with any questions.

FUTURE MAINTENANCE

In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Coding System Conditioner to the coding system of affected vehicles whenever the engine coolant is replaced. As a reminder, owners will be sent update pages with their notification letter that instructs them to add the pages to their Owner's Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet Except for the initial application associated with this campaign, the cost of adding the conditioner is the owner's responsibility.

CYLINDER HEAD GASKET WARRANTY EXTENSION

For owners of affected vehicles that have this Service Program performed promptly, SOA is extending coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service.

As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, the owner must properly maintain the vehicle's cooling system in accordance with the recommended maintenance schedule and Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner must be added each time the engine coolant is replaced. Resulting damage caused by a lack of maintenance or low coolant level will not be covered. Replacement of the Cooling System Conditioner during inspection and maintenance services is not covered under warranty.

DEALER PROGRAM RESPONSIBILITY

Dealers are to promptly service vehicles subject to this Service Program at no charge to the vehicle owner regardless of mileage, age of the vehicle, or ownership.

For affected vehicles sold after the date on the dealer's computer list, dealers are to contact those owners and provide them with a copy of the owner notification letter. They should also arrange to make the required correction according to the instructions in the service procedure section of this bulletin.

MODEL: ALL DESCRIPTION: Subaru Cooling System Conditioner (Case Quantity) Part # SOA345001

Vehicles in Dealer Inventory

Dealers are also to promptly perform the applicable service procedures defined in this bulletin to correct affected vehicles in their inventory (new, used, demo). Additionally, whenever a vehicle subject to this Service Program is taken into dealer new or used inventory, or is in the dealership for service, necessary steps should be taken to ensure the Service Program correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.

New or used vehicles listed in a recall/campaign that are in dealer stock must be:

* Immediately identified.
* Tagged or otherwise marked to prevent their delivery or use prior to inspection and/or repair.
* Inspected and/or repaired in accordance with instructions outlined in the Product Campaign Bulletin.

Any Authorized Subaru Dealer failing to perform the applicable service procedures defined in this bulletin to correct affected vehicles in their inventory (new, used, demo) prior to the vehicle being placed in service may be in breach of the Subaru Dealer Agreement.

PARTS INFORMATION

Subaru Cooling System Conditioner

Note :Subaru Cooling System Conditioner is packaged in cases that contain 12 bottles. Each affected vehicle requires one (1) bottle. Each case contains enough material to treat 12 vehicles.

Prior to the release of this Service Program, each dealer will automatically be shipped a quantity of Subaru Cooling System Conditioner equivalent to 40% of their vehicle sales, or up to a maximum of 20 cases.

Additional quantities of the Cooling System Conditioner will be available through normal parts channels after 2/15/04. In order to maintain an adequate part supply, SOA requests that Dealers only order quantities necessary to satisfy anticipated demand.

REPAIR PROCEDURES

The repair procedure involves adding Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the cooling system. Follow the recommended procedure that applies to either a "Cold" or "Hot" engine.

Caution :The engine cooling system is under pressure and may he extremely hot. To prevent personal injury or vehicle damage he sure to take appropriate precautions while performing this procedure.

Service Procedure on a COLD Engine

1. Install rags around the radiator filler neck to prevent coolant from contaminating the engine area.

2. Take off the radiator cap and set aside.

3. Extract 125ml (4.23 oz.) of coolant from the radiator using a suitable device such as a piston syringe, meat or poultry baster, antifreeze hydrometer, etc.

4. Place the syringe into the overflow reservoir and push the coolant out of the syringe.

5. Shake the bottle of cooling system conditioner until all contents are thoroughly mixed.

6. Pour the entire bottle of cooling system conditioner into the radiator.

NOTE : Do NOT pour the cooling system conditioner into the overflow reservoir. The conditioner Will settle at the bottom of the reservoir and not mix in the cooling system.

7. Reinstall the original radiator cap.

8. Remove rags from around the radiator filler neck.

9. Start the vehicle and let it run until the engine is warm. This ensures the conditioner circulates and there are no air pockets in the cooling system.

Service Procedure on a HOT Engine

1. Turn the ignition key to the "ON" position (engine off).

2. Turn the air conditioning "ON" to cycle the cooling fans. Leave the air conditioning "ON" for approximately two (2) minutes. This will lower the pressure in the cooling system.

NOTE: The pressure relief on a "HOT" engine is approximate. Caution should always be taken when removing the radiator cap on a "HOT" engine. Additional A/C "ON" time may be required to relieve cooling system pressure properly.

3. Turn off the air conditioning.

4. Return the ignition key to the LOCK ("OFF") position.

5. Follow procedure for COLD engine listed above.

RECALL CAMPAIGN IDENTIFICATION LABEL

Type or print the necessary information on a Recall Campaign identification label. The completed label should be attached to the vehicle's upper radiator support.

Колеги, сигурни ли сте, че смяната на гарнитурите на главите ще спре загубата на масло??? За антифриза - ясно.

Има някаква малка вероятност да спре след смяна на гумички на клапаните ама... надали